good evening, everyone. we begin "the reidout" with the terrifying new face of brau tall -- brutality. a veteran of russia's atrocities in chechnya known as the butcher of syria overseeing the air campaign there targeting syrian civilians. it flattened entire cities that earn him one of russia's highest military awards from vladimir

putin. he is already overseeing russian troops in southern and eastern ukraine and john kirby spelled out the track record of brutality. >> he and other senior russian leaders have shown in the past and you mentioned syria as one example, have shown clearly in the past disregard for avoiding civilian harm. their utter disregard in many ways for the laws of war, laws of conflict and the brutality for which they conduct and prosecute their operations. we're probably turning another page in the same book of russian brutality. >> and just tonight, kirby said the united states is monitoring a report from the ukrainian national guard of a possible chemical besieged port city of mariupol. their government is looking into the report noting that any use of chemical weapons could be a

callus escalation of the conflict. the associated press said more than 10,000 civilian haves been killed in mariupol adding the death toll could surpass 20,000. satellite images show an eight-mile long russian military convoy moving toward the donbas region and city of kharkiv. the leader said there were 66 now strikes on the city and surrounding areas in 24 hours killing at least 11 people including a child. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy addressed south korea's parliament warning that the russians were deploying tens of thousands of troops for a renewed assault in the east. and in an interview with "60 minutes" zelenskyy renewed his call and a no fly zone over his country. >> translator: i remember all of us remember books about the second world war and about the devil in uniform. adolph hitler. are those countries who did not

participate in the war responsible? the countries who let german forces march throughout europe, does the world carry responsibility for the genocide? yes. yes, it does. when you have the ability to close the sky, yes, it's scary that a world war could start. it's scary. i understand that. and i cannot put pressure on these people because everyone is afraid of war. >> with me now is former u.s. am -- ambassador to russia michael mcfaul and an msnbc security analyst. clint, i want to start with you. the devil in uniform, vladimir putin. these reports of chemical weapons attacks and what appears to be an attempt to almost sort of draw a half moon around ukraine and push their territory, russian territory in

to make ukraine smaller and to create this sort of bufferer because if you look at the places where they're attacking, there it is. we'll put that up on screen, where they're attacking. it isn't in the west in lviv, it's along their border and of course, in the south where they've already got crimea. it almost as if they want to essentially shrink the size of ukraine and shed as much blood as possible. what do you make of this convoy and this focus on the east by the russians? >> joy, the initial plan was to try and win everywhere and instead, now, they're just trying to win somewhere and if that somewhere is donbas. this is where vladimir putin was initially going in justification for seizing this part of kraine in the east. that push in the south out of crimea created a land bridge to mariupol under russian control for the most part. a few pockets of resistance.

it's unlikely the remaining ukrainian military that are there will be able to endure and there is a civilian devastation. what you're seeing vladimir putin do at this point is take all of his forces and mass it in the east and use total war, total war in the sense surrounding cities, bombing cities, leveling them. as we hear, there are rumors of chemical weapons. i would not be surprised at all if not now in the coming weeks we see chemical weapons to clear population centers the russian military cannot take. what you're seeing putin essentially do is go for the east by creating those circles if you can unite those rings. you will see a lot of pockets of the ukrainian resistance. he'll be able to mother them over the time in terms of holding out all humanitarian aid and in terms of hounding indirect fires. >> ambassador mcfaul, what do you think about general

alexander. >> he's being appointed because the other generals lost the war for the battle of kyiv. they wanted to take kyiv and failed. that's a major victory for the ukrainian forces, one of the biggest losses in a long time but yes, they've already gone aleppo i would say, joy. i think when we find out if we ever do, depending on what happens in mariupol, we will be completely shocked by how many people have been killed. i don't even like to use the word war to describe what is going on in mariupol because they're just killing people. they're literally killing everybody and destroying everything. that's exactly what they did in aleppo and did in chechnya back in that war in 1999, 2000. it's horrific but i also tragically agree with clint, i

think this city one day will fall and the strategy now is very clear. connect the red on your map and the south to the red on your map in the east and try to sue for peace with ukraine divided. >> and, you know, let me play for a moment president zelenskyy calling for more military aid. >> translator: it all depends on how fast we will be helped by the united states. to be honest, whether we will be able to survive depends on this. i have 100% confidence in our people and in our armed forces but unfortunately, i don't have the confidence that we will be receiving everything we need. >> i mean, michael, actually, let me give this to clint first. the other thing he said was that ukrainians are fighting for the right to a modern world. they're fighting for the basic right of freedom. the freedom from russia deciding your borders or deciding, you

know, who gets to join the e.u. or nato. that seems so fundamental. he is sort of fighting for the free world. not even sort of. ukraiians are bleeding and dying for the free world and for a lot of people, clint, it's hard to understand why the world wouldn't give them what they're asking for. there is a convey trained on them but they can't do much if they don't have air power. at this point, is there a rational explanation, this fear of world war iii is real but is there rational explanation for not just finding a way to give them what they want and need? >> yeah, joy, we're at an interesting inflection point. in press conferences today, you have the u.s. military saying well basically, send them all sorts of weapons up to a certain extent and that line keeps marching forward and it's open what weapons we're providing, talking about switchblade drones, javelins and this is hardware for a dismounted unit that's essentially a defensive

sort of posture to some degree. they can only go so far and i think what president zelenskyy was saying was the only way to take on large armor formations and wide open train, which is the ukrainian east is to have some sort of offensive capability and that's very different from what happened in kyiv. in kyiv. a dismounted force in an urban environment they know with interior lines can hold off a large formation like they did but it's very different going up into these open territories. similarly, you have boris johnson appearing in kyiv. i mean, this is out right support by european country, again, i think the right thing to do but it's also somewhat strange because we make these moves, the u.s. makes the moves, the u.k. makes these gestures and we say we'll do everything except for give you what you need to win. we want you to win but we're afraid to cross this line and the throwback on this is always if the u.s. does anything or nato does anything to really back ukraine, it will trigger a nuclear war and i just don't

know that that assumption is correct anymore. i think there is room to budge around there and things like dealing with air power, i mean, president zelenskyy needs that form of air power, much of this could be ended very quickly and i think we need to test constraints because vladimir putin is absolutely stretched at this point. i'm not sure he can continue to battle on much longer if he doesn't do it in the next two to four weeks. >> ambassador mcfaul, ambassador was doing interviews. vladimir putin loves his life. he's enjoying being a czar living off the backs of his people very well and very rich. in his mind, the idea that he would trigger mutual assured destruction, he doesn't think seems rational because he says this man is rational. he's decided he can get away with almost anything. he got away with it in syria. he got away with it in chechnya

and crimea and occupying the donbas, which he's already in. he keeps getting told by the world we're so afraid that you'll do the craziest possible thing that you go ahead and do the next craziest thing. you kill as many people as you want because there is only so far we'll go to stop you. the ukrainians have shown they have got all the courage to stop him if you let him. to you, when you look at this, isn't it the case that he actually has to be military defeated at this point? he's now arrested vladimir a friend of this show, we had him on. he's arresting opposition politicians that have access to american tv. he has no limits. he's arrested an american wnba player. he doesn't care because he really genuinely believes he can get away with anything. isn't the world telling him, yes, you can? >> well, it's a mixed message because on one hand we're arming ukrainians in a way we haven't done historically ever and it's

impressive and at the same time, i think we do fear escalation in an irrational way. you know, rational is a weird word. it not rational to kill children at a train station. it not rational to bomb innocent people in mariupol but let's leave that word aside. i just brought it up. putin, you're absolutely right, he will do things within limits. they've made very clear by the way since he first made those comments about nuclear weapons that they're only going to use them if russia is threatened itself, nobody is doing that. so i think that's off the table. the second thing people worry about is them attacking nato but if you're having so much trouble in your war with ukraine right now, you think putin is going to attack the largest most powerful alliance in the world anchored by the most powerful military in the world? i don't think so. and so i think yes, i support the president when he says no fly zone. that's where i disagree with president zelenskyy.

that's a decoloration, of war. everything short of that we have to give them weapons and do it in a way that will matter in the fight in the coming weeks. it can't be slow. so everything below that i think we need to be delivering now. >> yeah. i don't think anyone watching this show disagrees with you. putin has shown that, you know, you want to call somebody the devil in uniform, he's earned that title alongside the person to whom volodymyr zelenskyy was initially referring. thank you both very much. congresswoman liz cheney says the january 6th committee has enough evidence to refer donald trump for criminal charges. meanwhile, another key figure in the insurrection is cooperating with the feds plus, a major city is reimposing an indoor mask mandate. should we be concerned about the rise of cases? d anthony fauci joins me. you might have read about

the woman charged with murder over an abortion. those charges have been dismissed but don't be fooled, this is the future republicans are writing into law. "the reidout" continues after this. reidout" continues after this

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the january 6th committee has enough evidence for a criminal referral for donald trump according to vice chair liz cheney. >> we have not made a decision about referrals on the committee. i think that it is absolutely the case. it's absolutely clear that what

president trump was doing and a number of people around him was doing, they knew it was unlawful and did it anyway. there is not really a dispute on the committee. >> cheney pushed back on reporting that indicates the committee is split over sending the referral to the justice department over concerns it could backfire by politically tainting any move merritt -- merrick garland makes. a federal judge ruling on the case involving trump's lawyer john eastman so that trump probably committed a felony when he tried to stop congress from certifying the electoral vote from biden. judge david carter wrote based on the evidence, the court finds it more likely than not that trump attempts to obstruct the joint session of congress on january 6th, 2021 unquote. so while the january 6th committee is still contemplating

whether to send a criminal referral to the justice department, one thing is clear, it's getting harder and harder to ignore all the elements of this conspiracy and how high it might reach. merrick garland is leading to criticism he's not doing enough, there are signs the incest gages -- investigation is expanding. the stop the steal rally said he's taking a corporative posture with the doj investigation after receiving a grand jury subpoena. "the new york times" reports an indication the inquiry could reach into the trump administration and allies in congress, the subpoena seeks information about members of the executive and legislative branchs who are involved in the events or may have helped the obstruction. now here former u.s. attorney of the show. joyce, to me, when i saw this, i was like this is actually interesting. i've been toting alexander as

somebody interesting after he vanished after january 6th and seemed to go into hiding and popped back up in the tuckhams documentary it was a fake insurrection to make donald trump's people look bad. let me let people listen to remind folks who he is. >> the person that came up with the january 6th idea with gosar. we put maximum pressure on congress while voting so who we couldn't lobby, we could change the hearts and minds of republicans in that body hearing our loud war from outside. >> our loud roar from the outside whoever we couldn't lobby, we could change the hearts and minds of republicans. that sounds like a confession and it also sounds like a

snitch. mo brooks, andy bigs, congressman gosar, your thoughts? >> you know, it awfully interesting because he says if there are people we can't convince with logic, we'll convince them with violence. that sounds close to a statement about a criminal conspiracy in the works. if i'm a prosecutor and have access to alexander and what he says is a corporative posture, first off, i'm scenical as i approach him. i want to make sure that everything that he says is corroborated. i want to listen to his story and narrative. what i really want to know is are there text messages or documents that back up anything he has to say for instance about the congressman and i'm also very interested in what insight he might have by between the different factions that showed up on january 6 th. these maga groups and white

supremacists groups because there was obviously a lot of friction between them and the organizers of the different events and it's possible that alexander may have a narrative that will be very helpful to prosecutors in putting together a case that works ever higher up and closer towars trump's oval office. >> you're right. you have donald trump junior days after the election before any election results were certified texting to the chief of staff mark meadows right after the election, it's very simple. we have multiple paths we control them all. we either have a vote. we control and we win or it gets kicked to congress, win? january 6th. we have that. you have alexander saying i came up with the plan they would hear the roar of us if they wouldn't be convinced on january 6th to flip the election then you have the actual things that happened. you have the proud boys and the oath keepers show up. both of the leaders of those groups are now in trouble.

you have the proud boys leader chris donohoe pleading guilty and joshua james, these guys are cooperating with the doj. they're there. then you have the sort of academic over hang of here is how you do this. you need to find a way to get them, to get congress to not actually certify the election. john eastman outlining scenario vice president mike pence could deny certifying biden's election and ted cruz has a complementary plan, eastman asked in an inquiry by the lawyer for the january 6th committee whether he had communication with ted cruz to change the outcome of the 2020 election, declined to answer and invoked the fifth. i'll let you talk while i put up the chart the wonderful producer for this segment put together. there are so many people joyce, who all seem to have the same plan. somehow delay the certification on january 6th and somehow

convince members of congress to not certify somehow convince the vice president to overturn the election. can it be a coincidence that all these people had the same idea, some of whom acted violently? >> i had a wonderful mentor that said there is no such thing as coincidence in law enforcement and by in large that tends to be true. joy, you've done a great job laying out the problem doj faces and i'll be wonky here for a second. >> we love that. >> there is a concept in the law about conspiracies where sometimes you have one big conspiracy. everybody is part of it. they all enter it into the same agreement. they're all working together. on other occasions, you can have multiple conspiracies that can be over lapping but they can have different objectives and without boring people and causing them to turn off their tvs, i'll say there are legal implications for prosecutors in getting that right.

you can have cases get reversed on appeal if you're not careful about identifying conspiracies and charging them properly and so that's an issue i think doj faces here. you do such a great job of laying out all of the players and also the folks war room and the question how much command and control the former president had so i have discussed before, i'm very empathetic to the situation doj's prosecutors are in. if they're going to charge, they've got to get it right not just complicated legal issues but this factual over lay which as we look at this evidence, i think we all have a little bit of confirmation bias because we don't like what donald trump did. we saw in realtime he tried to commit an insurrection against americans. when a jury hears this evidence, the judge will instruct them that they have to start with the presumption of innocence and juries take that very seriously and the government will have to present specific evidence on specific charges and get it

right but increasingly between the january 6th committee's work and this increasing pile of cooperators, doj is developing, it looks like progress is being made. >> and, you know, you're right. i've had almost no empathy for the doj but you've been great coming on and being like hold on a second. we saw in michigan that what looked like an airtight conspiracy when it gets in the hands of a jury, anything from nullifying to a case put together. anything could happen in that range, they didn't get a conviction there. you saw the backdown in new york people were very upset about by alvin bragg sort of hold your horses and did say this i can weekend, no, they're still incest gating. if you aim for the king, you better be accurate because the risk is you jump out there, you do some sort of a prosecution and you lose.

>> i think that's right. prosecutors have a serious obligation to evaluate evidence before they indict and this is the america we want to live in and in this texas case, this prosecution i know you'll talk about later of the attempted prosecution of the woman for an abortion when texas law didn't make that a charge that could be brought, that's reprehensible and prosecutors shouldn't engage in that sort of conduct subjecting people to arrest because they have the power to do that when their case isn't any good. we don't want to be that america. we want to be an america where a former president is held accountable properly for his acts and that means we're living through tough and difficult times. there is fair and legitimate questions about merrick garland but increasingly, we see a lot of work going on behind the surface and for those of us living through it, we have to wait a little longer but i think we should have confa denls the -- confidence the system is doing its job. >> as much doubt as i have about

merrick garland, i have confidence in the prosecutors at the doj and one of the many reasons is because i know you. if they're anything like you, joyce vance, they're great and diligent and doing their job. god bless them and let's see what happens and we hope we can get justice for this country. thank you. still ahead, philadelphia reinstates indoor mask mandates as some parts of the u.s. report an uptick in new covid cases. dr. fauci joins me next. cases dr. fauci joins me next. (motor starting)

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covid cases are ticking up across the country fueled by a highly transmissible omicron subvariant. high profile names in congress are no exception. rashida tlaib is the latest to contract it. 80 people have tested positive after attending a dinner in washington on april 2nd including new york mayor eric adams, susan collins and more. two years into the pandemic with three vaccines and a lot of covid fatigue, many americans are stepping back into public life with more confidence and questions remain how to navigate the risks. for philadelphia that means the mask mandate is back. it's the first major city amid this latest surge. joining me now is dr. anthony

fauci, director of the national institute of allergy and infectious disease and chief medical advisor to biden. great to see you again. but usually seeing you again sometimes means i have to discuss bad news with you and this one is tough because this 80 people testing positive at one event has scared a lot of those of us here in the nation's capital, you know, we've got things coming up like the white house correspondence dinner, should i be afraid? [ laughter ] >> should we be afraid? >> well, if you are vaccinated, joy, and boosted, then you are in a very low risk category of getting seriously ill if you get infected. you're protected predominantly against infected but not nearly as well as we'd like because the vaccines do better in protecting against severe disease than it does against infection so the

organizers of these groups do whatever they can to try and mitigate the risk requiring people to show proof of vaccination and even requiring a test, a negative antigen test within 24 hours. the risk is low but it not zero. if you want to get back to some form of normality, you look at the cdc guidelines about giving some broad general frame work which to make your choice but the choice is up to the individual about the level of risk that they're willing to take. i mean, if you were totally risk adverse and you don't want to get infected at all no matter what for any number of reasons , you might have an underlying condition that would make you more likely to get a severe outcome and might have someone in your home who is a compromised person so that you might bring it home if you don't have the symptom, you put all of that into the equation of

whether you might want to go to a big dinner or not and that's the individual choice. that will be part of living with a level of infection in the community that's not stressing the hospital system that's not killing a lot of people that's not sending a lot of people to the hospital but still, people are getting infected. and that's really the name of the game of what it's going to be like and you follow it very carefully. >> yeah. you know, feels like there is mixed messages. for those of us vaxed and boosted, it seems like the overall message is you can go back to your life and go to dinner and do things but you hear about people mainly vaccinated getting sick. somebody i know passed recently who was vaccinated and boosted, i don't know what underlying conditions they had. on the other hand, you have the federal government imminently taking away the mask mandates they're trying to decide, the biden administration is trying to decide whether they should extend the mask mandates on

airplanes and transit hubs. that feels like a mixed message and i think i would be afraid to fly without wearing a mask. do you think it's wise to talk about that on transit? >> well, certainly that is being very actively discussed and i think what we're dealing with or i know what we're dealing with, joy, is they were dealing with a bit of a moving target. no doubt when you pull back the way the country has on the requirements for masks, according to the newd metrics, we see in other countries like the u.k. when you do that with ba.2 which is more transmissible than ba.1 and waning immunity, you see an uptick in cases exactly what they're seeing in the u.k. and certain european countries. so we're looking at what we're seeing right now. i don't think there is any question you are going to see an

uptick about half the country -- half of the states in the country are already seeing an increase. it isn't nearly as high to trigger a color change in the code but what will happen in the next few weeks before you make a decision pulling back on a mandate for travel like you asked. it will be kept or it may be that it will go up and things will come down and pull back. i can't tell you what the answer to that is right now. >> very quickly before we let you go, if you're over 50 now, would you get that fourth shot? should those over 50 go ahead and get that fourth shot or should they -- all of us wait? >> i recommend you go and get the shot if you're over 50. >> you heard it from the man. >> very clear recommendation. >> very clear. we love clarity. thank you very much. appreciate you. cheers. up next, a texas woman is arrested for murder after what

authorities say it was a self-induced abortion. those charges have now been dropped but it's a chilling preview of the future if row v. wade is overturned by the supreme court. stay right there. erturned by th supreme court. ayst right there where do you find the perfect designer? well, we found her in austin between a fresh bowl of matcha and fresh batch of wireframes. ...but you can find her, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork. (brad) congratulations! you're having... an out-of-apartment experience. 'cause these cramped confines aren't going to fit your rapidly expanding family. but with more rental listings than anybody else, but apartments-dot-com can help you trade this love nest for... (woman) ...an actual nest. (brad) baby names! for a boy, brad. for a girl, brad. apartments-dot-com. the most popular place to find a place.

that oddly satisfying feeling when you don't do it yourself. i think i'm the most honest human being perhaps that god ever created, perhaps. >> i'm so sorry for making you listen to that guy today.

but honestly, he is the leader of the republican party, the one to whom every republican from moscow mitch on down bends the knee. and for once, he is right. he does say what he means. take this comment from 2016 when he was running for president. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle? >> the answer is that it has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> uh-huh, at the time anti abortion activists condemned his statement and said they in no way wanted to punish women. fast forward to the present. a texas woman was charged with murder and held on a $500,000 bond due to what the sheriffs's office described as intentionally and knowingly cause the death of a self-indeuced abortion. we don't know the details of the case and it's still unclear if it was herrera's abortion or aided one but if she was

arrested for actually having the abortion, that is unprecedented. texas does have extremely harsh laws that are putting bounties on women but the laws haven't gone as far yet as legally punishing a patient who obtains an abortion, which is why the district attorney dismissed the case today and the anti abortion texas rights to life group says they actually agree with that decision. you got to presume due to the terrible p.r. but it does raise the question, after roe v wade is overturned by the right wing supreme court majority, which seems likely, will women be punished for abortions? before roe v wade, it was a crime in six states women were rarely punished. being captured, examined, interrogated and occasionally jailed and testifying in court punished women for seeking abortions if not prosecuted or

convicted of a crime. in today's environment, it is hard to see a way to make abortion illegal while not holding women responsible. if roe v wade is overturned, 26 states are certain or likely to out right ban abortion according to the gut marker institute. and as paul writes "the washington post" today, once overturned, red states will compete to see who can pass the most harsh abortion ban and if that doesn't throw people who want to exercise their right on their bodies in jail, you haven't been paying enough attention. that will be just the start. so what should democrats do about it? that is up next. emocrats do about it that is up next. it's 5:00 a.m., and i feel like i can do anything.

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supreme court is inching closer and closer to telling american women, your body belongs to the state the moment that you get pregnant however that happens even if it is by rape or incest. so, you cannot decide what you decide to do to your body. republican state houses across the country are being flooded with restrictive abortion bills. and anticipation by the right of the imminent and of -- this by the fact that according to pure research 59% of americans say abortion should be legal in all our most cases. 39% say that it should be illegal and all or most cases. majority of adults across

racial and ethnic lines expressed report for legal abortion. two thirds of asian and black adults say abortion should be legal. as it to 58% of hispanic adults and 50% avoided else. but congressional republicans are not waiting around for the court to put an end to this in america. the national review got a hold of the republican senate's messaging memo ahead of the supreme court's decision. it argues that the republicans, yes you know, the ones who want guns in every school but not books or funding or lunch for kids who can't afford it. they are the pro life, pro family party. the memo argues that it is democrats who are out of step with america because they sport coat, abortion on demand through all nine months paid for by taxpayers. it's a compound line. it's a lethal one. with me right now is the president and ceo of vocal and democratic pollster. you know, where to begin.

what seems to be happening right now with this prosecution, this attempted prosecution of this woman in texas that was then withdrawn. it seems like the hand was shown. you logically cannot say that abortion should be legal, but that women getting abortions are not committing a crime. the logical outcome of that logic, the outcome of that logic is that women are guilty of criminal offenses. i can't see how it doesn't end up with him and being prosecuted, do you? >> this is one of the regions why a judge has a third of the court. this was after it was presented. the other question one has to ask themselves, or any other violations actually done. this is the idea behind hippos. your privacy with whatever health care you have. your doctor cannot tell your employer, your neighbor. so if i were her trying to

identify how we would actually see this because it was a violation of her privacy in a very bottom level that is upheld that a thorough government. for taking a step back from that, it is a chilling effect for women everywhere and i loved ones with the government is trying to decide what is right for us at that moment. and we do not know or understand the circumstance. but she decided that this is where she was. and the fact that a medical procedure that she went for extra help in the hospital also could lantern jail. it is stepping so personal into our space. >> that seems to be the democrats are missing, hopefully they're not gonna mess. it but this is a dog that caught the car. problem it was always a great electoral strategy to say that we will end the scourge abortion until you do it. now, you start to see what happens when he implemented. it means arresting women, it means putting bounties.

he means disclosing that when we got abortions two could collect money on their head. it means a lot of cruelty to the woman. i wonder if that message is getting through the way the democrats are talking about this issue. are they running away from it? >> it is certainly not getting through, quite frankly i would argue that it is not the main focus of the conversation. look at the latest nbc poll. abortion issues is not even a top tier issue. it is not even close to being a top tier issue. it is an issue of less than 5% of the electorate. so right now it is not an issue that is an issue for them, it's not a top tier issue and politics is not rocket science. it is fear and it is hope and we have seen hope breakthrough but in the history of this country fear works a lot more

than help and i think the possibility for democrats is that this is one where they can actually drive fear in a way that helps them politically and the moment that you see issues of abortion or women's choice rise up to a top two, three, four issue consideration that i think republicans are in trouble because at that point they are not where the vast majority of voters are college educated women they need in order to swing these districts and states their way. the moment that these college educated white women think that this is gonna go away from them i think it's a real line and it's a change and shifted dynamic. quite frankly we are all talking about gas prices. >> it's true. the political incentives for republicans are going to end the minute roe v. wade ends. the new political incentive will be than to prove to his

role white voters, which is who they are catering to, that we are going to pass the most agree, just the strictest laws. it won't be that you are going to promise that you will get rid of this because it'll be gone. the laws -- might lock every, stronger i can see texas and florida competing with each other to pass the most locker applause possible. and that seems to me to be a message it needs to get through. i think about west texas where latino voters, hispanic voters are basically being message to the drubbing catholics to be with us because we're against abortion. rather than saying, no you're going to get arrested. >> right, this is the thing. if you -- when you actually do polling in a latino community, abortion is something that people believe is literally something between themselves and their god. no one should be talking about it because it is something that is a personal decision. there should be no judgment. and this is where the democrats over, over and over during every midterm -- this is where they missed the point. in 2020 in 2018, we are the

electoral base and young black, brown, asian native american folks and that is with the progressive party, that is their opportunity. this year alone, we are expecting almost three and a half million youth the turn 18 years old. you know who cares about abortion? young people, young woman who are trying to get through in this economy. they are setting them a very clear message that they're going to protect a body in a choice. at the end of the day, it will be spiritual for some but for somebody just plain economics. i can't do this right, now i have to go to school, that is where the mess. every single time the midterm comes around, all we hear about is where we going to do a suburban white voters. not that we can't do both, but we have to have that look for a base. it's a missed opportunity, it's dead center on what they actually care about people. i can't order the price of milk

if you are on a maternity leave. he may not read that benefited maternity. >> that only that -- >> i can go on -- >> if you are simply state property, i think we're missing the point here. the minute that your state property, think about that. you need to vote, or a trusted come our. thank you both, that is tonight's read out. chris hayes starts now followed by the great rachel maddow after the break. after the break. tonight on all in, how to turn four years in the white house into two billion dollars. explosive new reporting from the new york times on the saudi government's massive investment in the trump family. then how to make a criminal referral without really doing. at the latest in the major decisions bearing down on the january six committee. plus stark new warning from fiona hill and others about another trump turn. now, the governments